Himes and Debicella Go Global
The second of six 4th district debates focuses on foreign policy.
Editor's Note: To view where candidates stand on topics relevant to Wilton, and to add your comments, click here for the 2010 Patch Voter Guide.
Not far from the set of the Jerry Springer Show, two men with diametrically opposed worldviews met on a different sort of stage.
Congressman Jim Himes (D-4) debated his Republican opponent State Sen. Dan Debicella last night in a World Affairs Forum-sponsored event. And while neither congressional candidate is likely to qualify for the Springer Show any time soon, the debate was fairly robust and, at times, contentious.
A number of hecklers sitting in the Stamford Holiday Inn ballroom caused moderator Kay Maxwell to repeatedly warn noise violators they'd be escorted out.
The event spanned several issues and countries, including violence in Mexico and nuclear weapons in Iran.
Both Himes and Debicella agreed the recent spate of violence along the United State's southern border demands attention.
"We are seeing a deterioration along our southern border," Himes said during the debate. "We're seeing violence spill over into our states. It's an increasingly unstable situation."
The danger is the situation could become "chaotic enough that some of our most mortal enemies use the border as a launching pad," Himes said.
A member of the Homeland Security committee, Himes said the border must become more secure. Last May President Barack Obama requested $500 million to deploy an additional 1,200 National Guard troops along the border.
In addition, Himes advocates a long-term approach, including developing strong trade ties with Mexico and going after drug demand.
Debicella views the situation through the prism of law enforcement. Referencing the recent murder of a US citizen, the GOP candidate wants more immediate action.
"The solution – when an American is murdered – is the US has to partner with the Mexican police to bring them to justice. We should be cooperating with Mexican authorities to go into Mexico," he said.
After the debate, Debicella said precedent exists for such cooperation. He cited the US Drug Enforcement Agency and FBI's work with Columbia in the 1990s to bring Pablo Escobar to justice.
One audience member thought the debate didn't fully address the war on drugs.
"It was totally inadequate, I wanted to hear more about taking the profit out of drugs," said Peter Moss of Greenwich.
Moss said he wanted to hear the candidates' positions about decriminalizing certain drugs and supplying addicts with drugs at a reduced price and in a controlled setting.
Extraditing foreigners to the United States raises another issue: where to try them.
"Only US citizens have the right to be tried in civilian court," Debicella said. "Terrorists do not have the right to all protections. There is no reason to do it in public open court and give terrorists a chance to stand up and spout out their hate."
Debicella elaborated in a post-debate phone call.
"Be they alleged Islamic terrorists or Narco terrorists, so long as there is due process, military tribunals are less expensive, and fair," he said.
Last year the Obama administration said it supported military tribunals if detainees had greater protection, including banning evidence procured through torture, and letting defendants have more freedom in choosing counsel.
"I think there are some instances where military tribunals are appropriate, like Nuremberg," Himes said. "I'm not religious on this issue. I would say I'm swayed by facts."
The Bush Administration struggled for years to hold military tribunals. But in 2006, the US Supreme Court ruled 5-3 that George W. Bush hadn't the authority to try Guantanamo Bay detainees before military tribunals.
It ruled tribunals violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice and the 1949 Geneva Conventions, which give detainees, foreign and domestic, the same rights as US citizens facing military trial.
Himes said several hundred alleged terrorists have been tried in civilian court. Most recently a civilian court tried and convicted Faisal Shahzad. He was sentenced to life with no possibility of parole.
However, some question the Department of Justice's claim that since 9/11 civilian courts successfully tried and convicted 300 terrorists.
According to the American Civil Liberties Union, many of those alleged convictions were for passport violations, fraud, false statements and conspiracy. The ACLU disputes the number of trials and convictions.
The debate also dealt with Iran's nuclear weapons quest. Though there are conflicting reports regarding when Iran might achieve nuclear capability, neither candidate was conflicted about whether Iran should enjoy such capability.
"Iran can't be allowed to get a nuclear weapon, period," Debicella said.
Debicella said the US should adopt a strategy similar to President George Bush's approach following Iraq's 1991 invasion of Kuwait.
"You slap strict economic sanctions on them," Debicella said. "Then we do a naval blockade like we did in Desert Shield. If that fails, you do air strikes to take out nuclear capability. It gives them every chance, with military force as a last resort."
Debicella further explained.
"Sanctions have to be a step in escalating the pressure," he said in a telephone conversation after the debate. "Sanctions are an imperfect tool, but you need a gradual escalation from diplomacy. You don't just jump from diplomacy to invasion. That was the mistake George W. Bush made with Iraq."
However, sanctions rarely work, said some foreign policy experts.
They haven't worked in North Korea, they didn't work in Iraq, and ultimately they can backfire. The regime in question can blame its deteriorating economic situation on the US leading the general population to rally around the very policy or weapon in question.
Himes said recently enacted economic sanctions against Iran are only a start.
"The problem is Russia and China have their own interests in Iran," Himes said. "But what Dan's plan entails is an immediate attack on the northern border of Israel, attacks on 50,000 troops already in harm's way in the region, and immediate closure of the Strait of Hormuz."
Enlisting China in reining in rogue states is tough because China holds $868.4 billion of US debt. That has serious national security implications, Himes said.
"China is now our creditor, which limits our ability to say 'We need your help on Iran,'" Himes said.
Moreover, China's policy to undervalue its currency and allow the pirating of US goods and ideas threatens the economy. That led Congress to grant the US Commerce Department the power to exact tariffs on Chinese goods.
"At the end of the day, the passage of tariffs is a tool that could have China take notice," Himes said post-debate.
However, imposing tariffs opens the door to retaliation, Himes said.
The most contentious part of the debate revolved around Israel.
"In this area we do have a difference. Both of us believe Israel is an ally of the United States," Debicella said. "For Jim and President Obama, it's an arms length alliance, with the US as a neutral mediator. Israel is an ally of the United States just like Great Britain is."
Debicella took issue with a letter Himes signed last May. He said Himes was wrong to ask for more facts after Israel attacked the Gaza-strip bound flotilla.
"Once again Dan you have a casual relationship with the truth," Himes rebutted.
Himes said he made that remark after a UN official chastised Israel for responding with force. Himes said his remarks were taken out of context. Instead, he said Israel is owed the benefit of the doubt because more is going on that meets the idea.
Debicella also cited the so-called Gaza 54. A reference to 54 Congress members who called upon Israel to open its borders with Gaza for humanitarian aid.
"I'll admit that letter got controversial, but to use the Gaza letter to issue this kind of garbage frankly says something about your character," Himes said holding up a piece of campaign mail which claims Himes isn't Israel's friend.
Outside the Holiday Inn supporters from both camps held signs, some hand drawn, others factory printed. Though far smaller, and more peaceful, than the kind of crowd a G-8 summit draws, it showed Fairfield County voters care about foreign affairs.
John Lawrence, a consultant with the United Nations Development Agency, thought Himes won.
"Debicella seems uncomfortable in the foreign policy arena," Lawrence said. "Jim Himes has traveled widely and lived abroad. He's an exposed American. I found Debicella speaking to the unexposed American. He always drifted back to domestic policy."
David Kostek
11:58 am on Friday, October 22, 2010
Wow. Debicella proposes two acts of war against Iran without a declaration of war in effect. Given the chance to speak freely, the guy's knee-jerk responses are unreal. And in this case, illegal.
Al Alper
12:24 pm on Friday, October 22, 2010
That's an absurd leap in rhetoric. His form stand that ""Iran can't be allowed to get a nuclear weapon, period," is a refreshing relief from the politics of appeasement that has led to 3 terrorist attacks on America since Mr Himes and President Obama took office and bowed to foreign will.
David Kostek
12:36 am on Sunday, October 31, 2010
""You slap strict economic sanctions on them," Debicella said. "Then we do a naval blockade like we did in Desert Shield. If that fails, you do air strikes to take out nuclear capability."
Both the blockade and the air strikes are acts of war, which would require declarations of war from the Congress or invocation of the War Powers Act. Any of the constitutional scholars who populate the Tea Party can tell you that.
schroeder
12:23 pm on Friday, October 22, 2010
For all the Springer Show buildup, it doesn't sound like they have too many strong disagreements. But as usual, Debicella's lying about Himes' record. I think he mischaracterizes Himes' support for Israel as "arm's length". Himes (and the President) seem to understand that peace in the West Bank is the key to the entire Middle East. If the Palestinians get a state, organizations like Hamas, and leaders like Ahmadinejad no longer have a constant rallying point. That gives Israel more security, and more stability region-wide. This is maybe the thorniest foreign policy issue on earth, and we can't afford to have someone with a simplified "Israel good/terrorist bad" approach. Bush tried that, and the peace process fell apart for nearly a decade.
Himes always comes across as thoughtful and well-informed, and this debate was no different. I worry that Debicella is comfortable making bold broad statements but doesn't really understand the in-depth. It's the same with economics - both candidates talk about spending cuts, but Himes gives a list of specific programs, while Debicella is always vague. Even if you like Debicella's ideas, ask yourself if he understands how to actually put them into practice. Himes' stuff seems a lot more common-sense.
Al Alper
12:28 pm on Friday, October 22, 2010
Himes called for "more facts" before support Israel. Debicella was absolutely right, Himes is lying about that. Himes' public statement immediately after the incident gave perfunctory pause to Israel.
Cathryn J. Prince
2:07 pm on Friday, October 22, 2010
Clarification:
Mr. Moss' position is that drugs should not be decriminalized, the broad sense of the meaning of decriminalized. Instead teh sale of drugs should remain highly illegal, but the government should provide drugs directly to addicts at a low enough price to take away most of the incentive for illegal sales.