Gay Apparel IS Tolerant
In my home, we're drowning out off-key messages of hatred just to 'Deck The Halls.'
“Mama, sing that song that Daddy whistles.”
Year round, my 5-year-old daughter loves “Deck the Halls” because it’s familiar—it’s the only song my husband knows how to whistle. I love to sing it because I crack her up just by changing my singing voice from silly to theatrical to cartoon.
One day last week at the dinner table, I was singing it for her after one of her frequent requests.
“…Don we now our gay apparel, fa la la…”
Out of the corner of my eye, I spied my 9-year-old son wrinkling up his nose.
“Ew. Gay.”
I wanted to cry.
Turns out he was repeating what he’d heard at school. Despite talking with him about equality for all his entire life, despite embracing gay relatives and family friends on many occasions, despite having many discussions in our house about how everyone is different in some way, some ugliness from outside had started to creep in.
Somehow, our nine years of planting the seeds of acceptance, tolerance and anti-bigotry had flown the coop. Peer pressure and effect had taken up insidious roots and were trying to destroy any good values we’d taught him.
It doesn’t surprise me, in a way. I remember being a fourth grader too, and “the way kids are.” (Those are air-quotes, by the way, for added sarcastic emphasis.)
It’s not the way kids have to be, however. But sadly, it seems homosexuality is the one acceptable bastion for intolerance and bigotry.
Don’t believe me? Just ask Texas Gov. Rick Perry.
Perhaps you caught the incredibly bigoted, anti-gay ad his campaign released in Iowa last week, targeted to woo the ultra-conservative, evangelical religious voters in that state. Widely criticized outside of Iowa, the ad continues to log more ‘dislikes’ on youTube than likes.
Even though the ad was panned—and reportedly the cause of internal campaign strife—somewhere along the lines someone in Perry’s camp thought it was still okay to spew hate like this: “…you don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.”
The only thing it made me pray for was for Rick Perry to go away.
Most concerning to me is the way such ‘acceptable,’ overt bigotry trickles down to the kids, often giving way to bullying that can, at times, push vulnerable teens over the edge. The kind of bullying that led Tyler Clementi to take his own life last year hasn’t ended, and we’ve heard too many stories of children as young as 9 or 10 who have found the only solution to be suicide to escape homophobic bullying from peers.
Think about the message delivered by one Michigan teacher who changed the lyrics of “Deck The Halls” for students in music class, who were taught to sing, “Don we now our bright apparel.” As one well-known activist, author and columnist Dan Savage said, it seemed the carol needed to be “straightened out” and that gay had no place in school.
Savage has been at the forefront of helping LGBT kids and teens struggling with negative messages about homosexuality with the “It Gets Better” project. According to their website, the project was “created to show young LGBT people the levels of happiness, potential, and positivity their lives will reach – if they can just get through their teen years. The It Gets Better Project wants to remind teenagers in the LGBT community that they are not alone — and it WILL get better.”
The project shows videos from people who self-identify as members of the LGBT community, and from people who are not gay but support tolerance and acceptance, some famous and not-so-famous. The movement has helped somewhat, with stories of teens who have written, emailed or created videos crediting “It Gets Better” with helping them cope against hatred they experience.
I always assumed my son’s generation was one that had been born in a more enlightened age, where they just grew up “knowing” that moms work, that all people have differences we accept, and that sometimes a friend will have two dads or that being gay is ok. Sadly, although I assumed I’d sent my son off to school with those lessons solidly locked in, I forgot the power of peers, and that not everyone else has been equipped with those same lessons.
So we’ll be talking about it a lot more again, especially about how to speak up loudly in defense of what we believe when it differs from loud bigotry around us, and how to encourage others to be accepting of differences. We’ll also be trying to integrate the things we hear and what our own reality at home is.
Last, I think I’ll be searching for my brightest, gay apparel in league with people I support, and singing loudly about a word that should equate to tolerance, love and celebration. I hope you’ll join that chorus. For when it comes to our kids, it seems we still need to sing louder to drown out the off-key messages of hatred just to Deck The Halls.
ETP
7:20 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Soooo, why can't children pray in school?
And is the pledge of allegiance that offensive?
Are they being bullied ?
Heather Borden Herve
9:15 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Ed, on this one, I'm going to respectfully push back. You chose the most picayune line in the piece to misrepresent. How about we bring it back to the point of the rest of the 99% of the article--how homosexuality is construed in this country, that despite a majority of people supporting the repeal of DADT there are still people--like Perry--who feel it's acceptable to call it 'wrong' and to try to prevent civil equality. There are still people who find it okay to perpetuate stereotypes and teach bigotry and bully gay teens. There are people with such ignorant fear of the word 'gay' that a Christmas carol has to be censored. I'd prefer to hear your take on that, as it's the point of the entire column today.
ETP
9:43 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Heather, neither you nor I think prayer is picayune and I did not misrepresent anything about prayer. I simply focused in on an element of your piece. Banning prayer is just as bigoted as bashing gays' but it affects more people and should receive at least the same level of editorial outrage. Kids are being bullied to not say prayers in school and look at all the heat Tebow is taking for his beliefs on the field.
Dave
9:50 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Rick Perry is an idiot and a bigot, and he makes a horse's ass out of himself often enough that he'll remain Texas' problem and not ours. That said, ETP and Perry are right on this point - where is the tolerance for prayer in school or a Christmas celebration? Tolerance doesn't just mean accepting the liberal idea du jour.
Reverend Barbara Sexton
5:37 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Heather, we get it. You don't like Perry. And you say, "Peer pressure and effect had taken up insidious roots and were trying to destroy any good values we’d taught him. (your son)" Seriously? It must be a 'hoot' to watch you 'interact' with other parents and persuasive teachers, at school meetings & events. Is this truly your mindset? I sure hope not. Anyway, I am more inclined to agree with ETP since I believe that CHRISTIANOPHOBIA (and not homosexuality, as you claim) is now the "one acceptable bastion for intolerance and bigotry". 'Soft targets', especially around the holidays. Merry Christmas & Happy Hanukkah-Rev. Barb
Tolerance Rocks
5:52 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Rev, in your line of work, do you try to lay a strong moral foundation for youth, only to see it thwarted at times by forces outside your control? Do you then talk to others about this and try to bring awareness to the issue? I hope this is something you would do, just like a vigilent parent does. It sounds like you are concerned about Christianophobia and not concerned about all kinds of religious intolerance. Sorry, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around your "mindset."
Reverend Barbara Sexton
12:13 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Ah, Tolerance Rocks--you're brilliant. I'm on this 'CHRISTIANOPHOBIA AWARENESS CAMPAIGN' for two reasons: 1) It's true, Christian (and particularly Catholic)-bashing is at an all-time high, along with anti-Semitism and distaste for ANY religion at all. And 2) I want everyone to get all these lame 'phobias' OUT of their systems, so that never again will being labeled as any type of 'phobe' have any meaning. I'm merely 'defining' the phenomenon. Think I'll invent 'OCCUPYOPHOBIA' and 'ANTI-OCCUPYOPHOBIA' next. Blessings-Rev. Barb
Reverend Barbara Sexton
12:22 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Also, Tolerance Rocks...You ask if I "lay a strong moral foundation for youth"....My answer is yes, of course, and most often, by example. However, back to the article here: It is NEVER a good idea to use one's child--of whatever age, let alone a 9 year old boy--to illustrate a socio-political point...especially one concerning a controversial topic. Mrs. Heave's son will not love her for this one, especially since the entire article is more absurd (imho) than meaningful. Rev. Barb
Heather Borden Herve
2:13 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Let’s agree to agree on this point Rev. Barb: It’s probably not such a great idea for you to make ANY assumptions about my son, what is good for him, what he knows and what he would consider okay for me to do with regard to what I write about him. He actually knows what I write about him because we discuss it before I do publish anything that concerns him. My mindset (again, so it’s clear and we forgo assumptions): I know what he can handle appropriate for his age, his intellect and his emotions, and we have discussions based on that, especially on things socio-political. One thing I’ll be sure to add to the discussion now is how to recognize those who “use” religion to cloak their argument for why their hate and divisiveness is okay.
Heather Borden Herve
9:55 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
@Ed, again please don't misrepresent my words: I wasn't calling prayer picayune, just the line from the piece. @Ed and @Dave: This particular column is much larger than that. Please don't make this comment thread a discussion about prayer in school. It's worth a discussion, on that we agree. Perhaps I'll take it on in another column (or perhaps you'd like to write it as a guest editorial, we can talk to Craig), but that's not the main point of this column. It IS about kids bullied to a point where they opt for suicide. It IS about people being discriminated against for their sexual orientation.
Reverend Barbara Sexton
12:34 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Mrs. Herve-You sure did pick a weirdly 'light-hearted' way (?) to make a point about 'bully-induced suicide'? Did I get that right? Unfortunately, your tactic 'back-fired' and you've actually managed to insult a few here. (Not me, I have a tough skin.) My advice to you, now, is to 'cut your losses' with this piece (i.e. close out the comments) and start anew WITHOUT odd references to anything related to our joyful Christmas & Hanukkah season. You're better than this and obviously have a good heart and good intentions. In the lab, I'd love to say, "No experiment is ever a TOTAL failure; it can always serve as a 'bad example'. I learned the hard way, too : ) God Bless You-Rev. Barb
Heather Borden Herve
2:15 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Odd you’d consider calling the topic at hand light-hearted, as I’m sure millions of people in the LGBT community wouldn’t consider anti-gay hatred in any form light hearted. I’ve heard from many people who feel differently than you that they’re grateful I’ve published this column (it has run on more Patch pages than just Wilton’s), and I’m actually encouraged there is discussion of any form—that’s the goal in the long run, even if it shows where true hatred rears its ugly head. Interesting you continue to be exclusionary and divisive, but you don’t get to claim proprietorship of Christmas or Hanukkah (something tells me you’re probably not so eager to claim Diwali, Kwanzaa, Ramadan or anything else so … ‘other.’) And the other thing this shows—how you try to cloak your hatred in religious benevolence. I’ll seek my blessings elsewhere, thanks.
Kevin
10:37 am on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
It's not just Michigan...our Wilton 6th graders also donned "bright apparel" in their recent rendition of the song. I can't wait for the next fringe group to take offense with an archaic lyric and look to change it - I vote for "Figgy Pudding" - I've never had it but it just CAN'T be American - right?
Jlo
3:28 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Heather I think you are forgetting that kids in general are cruel. It's a pack mentality and it doesn't pay to be different while growing up, unfortunately. If you are gay, fat, red headed, have a stutter, wear glasses, or do any number of other things that make you stand out from the pack you are going to get singled out. I'm not saying thats right, but its the way it has been for a long time and it has roots in human and animal nature so it isn't something that will be going away anytime soon.
Heather Borden Herve
9:46 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
So, "a long time ago" when it was ok that kids used the 'n-word,' we shouldn't have spoken up just because we knew kids could be cruel? when it was ok to use any kind of perjorative, bigoted term for anyone who was different like 'retard' or 'kike' we just needed to remember that singling someone out was just something we had to accept? I can't accept that, just like those behaviors "a long time ago" became unacceptable. I know it takes time, but I'm hoping by speaking out it helps other people feel more comfortable not accepting the status quo as it stands now. Hopefully I'm going to teach my children that standing up for what's right, even if it means standing away from the pack, is a mark of character.
Jlo
12:30 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
I thinks its less a cause for alarm than just your son being a kid. At 9 years old I doubt he has anything more than a cursory understanding of what being gay, straight, bi, etc. even means. That isn't going to happen for a couple years when he hits the sexually charged teen years. You're doing the right thing trying to guide him but its totally normal for him to drift from that as he begins to learn things and form his own opinions. I don't remember what I said when I found out that men had sex with men, but I'm sure it was alot worse than "ew gay" and my parents never addressed it with at all, I formed my own opinions. Yet here I am 20 years later, I have gay friends, I don't consider myself a bigot, and I could care less if a person wants to have sex with men, women, or farm equipment.
Point being don't freak out on the kid, its a natural part of growing up, kids learn their own boundaries and form their own values. You can't protect them forever, you just have to hope that all you have taught them up to that point will help them through this time.
JSB
4:30 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Likewise, at school we can and must demand the same proactive explicit educational leadership from our teachers and our Board of Ed administrators. The history of gay oppression and the gay civil rights movement is extraordinary and current. It parallels other civil rights movements but has unique elements as well. Is gay history taught in our schools? Where in the school libraries are the children's stories with same sex parents? Why haven't all our Wilton schools' non-discrimination policies been updated to include sexual orientation?
JSB
4:30 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Just as drug use is higher among teens who aren't explicitly taught the tools to navigate the sea of peer pressure, bigotry and hatred are more easily cultivated in homogenous communities that don't proactively and explicitly address the issues of nondiscrimination and tolerance. So over coffee at Starbucks, ask your friends what they are doing to teach tolerance and empathy. Write the school and ask what they teach in this area. Ask what the teachers tell their classes about celebrating diverse families when the class makes Mother's Day and then Father's day gifts. If it's not enough, affirmatively and proactively demand a change. Over breakfast with family, talk about how words hurt. As an assignment, ask your child to use words today, to make the world a better place. Then if your child does so, celebrate it.
Rick Perry's antigay commercial showed that he is not a leader, but rather, a bully who is sorely lacking the qualities of empathy and tolerance. Empathy and tolerance are human qualities that can be taught. And these virtues can really be learned. This fact alone should give us all a reason for hope this holiday season.
JSB
4:31 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Thank you Heather for bringing this important issue to light.
And to ETP, I say that banning prayer and antigay discrimination are not equally bigoted. First,no one is keeping our children from praying in school. The separation of church and state means our tax funded schools don't lead Christian prayers or Hindu prayers or Muslim prayers or Buddhist chants or even an athiest's prayers against God. In the 1970s I went to Wilton public schools and prayed every day. I prayed to God that I would get through the day without being bullied or teased or called names. I prayed the lump in my throat from sadness and fear would go away. I prayed that no one would find out I'm gay. Since then, as a society, we've come a long way. But truthfully, we certainly have a long way to go.
At home we can and must teach tolerance, again and again and again, with our words and with our actions. Do we explain to our kids that the Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts have an explicit national discriminatory policy to exclude children who are gay (or atheist, or agnostic)?
ETP
4:48 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Banning prayer is a bigoted biased assault on religious beliefs. It makes children believe prayer is wrong and does not belong in a 'secular world.' To fall back on the old separation of church and state excuse is unworthy of the more informed components of your post. The state is not permitted to favor one religion over another does not mean it has to eliminate religion from every day life. More wars and deaths have been attributable to religious intolerance than any other bigoted view (combined?) All bigotry deserves editorial outrage.
Trent N
3:11 pm on Thursday, December 15, 2011
Religious intolerance is the result of intolerance brought upon by the group's own religion. Religion has propagated war just as much as the feuding of rival clans/kingdoms/nations for whatever political reasons.
Banning prayer in school happens for a reason, and I absolutely agree with it.
Reverend Barbara Sexton
5:22 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Our kids are not 'mini-Me's'...nor should they be. Blessings-Rev. Barb
Heather Borden Herve
9:47 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
No, let's hope they aspire to be better.
Reverend Barbara Sexton
12:47 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Yep.
Tolerance Rocks
5:25 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Ed, pray to accept, honor, and return in kind the heaploads of grace bestowed upon you by the readers of the Wilton Patch.
ETP
5:39 pm on Tuesday, December 13, 2011
Ok, I am stumped... :)
Citizen
2:54 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
I completely agree with the Rev. She isn't saying the topic of anti-gay discrimination is light hearted so much as the way this column presents it. You want to talk about how gays are mistreated? Don't cloak it in a story about a Christmas carol. You miss your own point doing it that way and attract negative attention. Very few people will argue with the thesis "hatred of gay people because they are gay is wrong". Lots of people will pick on the thesis, "look at what the bigots are doing! they're ruining christmas by changing the words of a carol to avoid acknowledging homosexuality. Don't they know how much anti-gay bias is out there?" You apparently attempted to write based on the former but ended up with something closer to the latter and I think that's why you're getting the push back.
Frankly, I don't have any problem with seven year olds singing "Deck the Halls" with either lyric. I would have a problem with them being taught human sexuality in music class and if altering the lyrics is the only way to avoid that problem, go for it. It's TOTALLY different from tolerance writ large. I can tell my kids that there are all sorts of people and they all need to be respected for who they are. I don't need to tell them (at a very young age) what makes some people different and why. I don't think it makes me a bigot to not want to open that kettle of fish with young children. It's a lot easier to have kids understand and respect superficial differences at a young age.
Deb
8:56 pm on Wednesday, December 14, 2011
Aren't there dictionaries in our schools? If I were a teacher, music or other, and a child had a question about the meaning of a word in a book, lyric or conversation, I would direct the child to the dictionary. I think Webster covers the definition of "gay", as in "gay apparel", perfectly.
Stephen
12:05 pm on Thursday, December 15, 2011
And they can look up "don" and "apparel" while they're at it! How about let's keep the word and use it as a teaching moment to explain what it doesn't mean. And then say, even if it did mean that it would still be ok, just a little more colorful.
Then move on and unpack this double whammy: the once-familiar Stephen Foster song "My Old Kentucky Home" originally had the line "'tis summer, the darkies are gay." But then in 1986 the KY legislature officially changed "darkies" to "people" -- presumably only in the state of KY. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Old_Kentucky_Home
Amo Probus
12:47 pm on Thursday, December 15, 2011
And there goes "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas..."
At what point do we start celebrating the differences that make us unique?
Kathy Rosenbaum
11:57 am on Thursday, January 5, 2012
I have two little boys, ages 10 & 8. Here's what I see:
Kids are kids. MOST kids are grossed out by the thought of ANY "sexual" contact; my 10 year old swears he will not get married because he can't stand the thought of (makes the humping motion).
As an aside- my son will not say the word "sex" because he PERSONALLY finds it inappropriate. I say the word; my husband says the word but my 10 year old is personally not ready to say it. I would never force him to say or embrace something he's not ready for- it's not respectful of him.
Both of my boys from time to time will call each other "gay" or say "that's so gay"- neither of them knows what it means and they've heard it from other friends at school.
During these times, I stop them and do my best to explain in an age appropriate way what "gay" is. Yes, they wrinkle their noses as well but I also make sure they see pictures of my friends in Georgia who just adopted a little girl... even though both friends are women. Who live together. And love each other. The way Mama and Daddy love each other.
Continued...
Kathy Rosenbaum
12:05 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
I didnt' take Rick Perry's comment as derogatory. I felt he was saying that the rights of some Americans are protected while the rights of others are scorned and trampled.
Sexual orientation, religion and what we do with our bodies are social and personal issues- not government issues. Some people don't approve of homosexuality- those people should not participate in same sex relationships. Some people do not approve of abortions. Therefore, those people probably shouldn't have abortions and should teach their children that abortion isn't acceptable in their family. Some people (like my 75 year old father) still use the "n-word". I do not because I don't think it's appropriate. I also don't think it's appropriate for black people to use the "n-word", but if they do, that's THEIR business- not mine.
My job as a parent is to teach my boys what I value and hope they value the same things. However, everyone is different. As a group, it appears that through "political correctness", we seem to have forgotten that we all bear personal responsibility for our actions and choices.
Again, continued because I'm long winded...
Kathy Rosenbaum
12:10 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
I happen to despise Muslim extremists who commit acts of terrorism. However, last year we had a Muslim friend from Egypt stay with us for a week. I drank alcohol in front of him and didn't cover my head. He prayed 5x a day and talked to my kids about Allah. I didn't make any meals with pork and he didn't have a problem being alone in a room with me. My kids and I also had the opportunity to ask him some rather pointed questions about his religion, 9/11 and the Muslim Brotherhood- which he answered sincerely.
THAT is my idea of tolerance. I didn't change my life, he didn't change his life and we're friends. I still hate Muslim extremists- and now I realize that he does, too.
We don't have to celebrate our differences- we just have to accept that there are differences and respect each other as human beings.
Ok, I'm done.
JSB
1:28 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
Kathy - I know you didn't take Rick Perry's comments as derogatory -- you said, "I felt he was saying that the rights of some Americans are protected while the rights of others are scorned and trampled." But what Rick Perry said was this: “…you don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.” Rick Perry was trying to get votes by arguing something is wrong "when X yes, but Y no." He was insinuating X shouldn't exist and Y should.
If you really believe Rick Perry was just saying some rights are protected and others aren't, then the following statements would not sound uncomfortable: "there's something wrong in this country when blacks can vote, but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas," or "there's something wrong in this country when abuse victims can get health care, but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas." Rick Perry very much intended to inflame antigay sentiments with his commercial. He signed an antigay pledge-- a pledge to sponser a US Federal amendment to limit marriage to opposite sexed couples. My same sex marriage to my husband would be nullified. When Perry's makes a public declaration that begins by stating "there is something wrong in this country when gay's can serve openly in the military," he inflames prejudices and instills fear in the gay and lesbian community.
Continued...
JSB
2:16 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
A child who is uncomfortable with "Don we now our gay apparel," should be taught that gay in this context means happy. Moreover, the child should be taught that there is no bad meaning of the word gay. Its hard to find the positive value in accomodating such a child with new lyrics. If there were a lyric that said, "we stand up straight," who would suggest changing the lyric because straight means tall but also heterosexual?
When I was a child, in third grade we had a mentally retarded girl in our class, whom the teachers referred to as "special." Partway through the year, our teacher delightedly announced we were going to be treated to a visit from a special guest. I remember kids in my 3rd grade class groaned and someone blurted "I hope not too special!" We were visited by a children's author. After the author left, our teacher took the opportunity to remind us that there are multiple meanings of the word special -- neither of them is bad -- and both of them deserve of our full respect. 40 years later the lesson still feels fresh.
I for one, am grateful to Heather Borden Herve for looking closely at the issues involved in the wrinkled up nose of her nine year old stemming from a cheerful song. By examining the cultural context, and not just giving the moment a "you-know how-kids-are" pass, she challenges us all to do the same. It is important not to shy away from teachable moments.
Kathy Rosenbaum
2:43 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
I'm not saying we should shy away from teachable moments- I'm saying that everyone is different & our personal values are just that- personal.
As for your comparison of gays in the military to abuse victims or the civil rights movement- it's not the same. Abuse victims are just that- victims of bad people. Black people fought openly to end a deeply embedded system of discrimination in all aspects of their lives. DADT applied only to gays & lesbians who voluntarily enlisted in the military. The whole idea of DADT is ridiculous- a person's sexual orientation is his or her own business & has never been proven to affect job performance whether gay or straight.
I understand Heather's reaction- like I wrote, my boys have done & said the same. My point is that our job as parents is to explain our families' values & certainly not up to any school to change lyrics or delete phrases in an effort to be PC.
Kathy Rosenbaum
2:57 pm on Thursday, January 5, 2012
Also- even IF Perry got the GOP nomination and became POTUS, it's up to individual states re: legalizing gay marriage, correct? In order to amend the US Constitution, 2/3 of the states in the US would have to agree that gay marriage is wrong.
Sorta like repealing abortion, I don't worry that any GOP president or Congress will do away w/ Roe v. Wade. We've had conservative SCOTUS majorities & conservative Congressional majorities since Roev. Wade passed. It never even comes up- except in the media.
JSB- I hate that you even have to worry about these issues. Someday, I hope for candidates who can keep the focus on what the govt SHOULD focus on & out of people's relationships.